Unfair practice

[petainnt]

And who is not to say that the teacher who transferred was not transferring for personal reasons (IE Sick Mother) The one taking Mat leave might have been trying fo 10 years on IVF and finally fell pregnant and the long service leave could have been someone who had sucombed to something like cancer and chose to take that time to seek treatment? Please do not judge those teachers I have seen people in all walks of life use the above as legitimate reasons for taking leave and really when you think about it those people in the situations above would really have your daughters progress down the list. Yes it does matter but not as much as what they might be dealing with.
Just as you have put your daughter and yourself first in this arguement, they to have put themselves first. And to right

[petainnt]

Had to come back to this one today....


Have an Apprentice Chef nearly at third year (that is 2 solid years with food no other subjects)- a new head chef has been assigned to the kitchen - first thing checked was the ROCA book (record of competencies achieved for the work place) of the apprentice the head chef has declared that the apprentice is not at a standard that he has been signed off so far. So Lucky break u pick it up at 6 months at School or waste 3 years into a four year apprenticeship to have someone tell you to do it different? If that is the chosen career course that one has not every employer/trainer is the same, hence the lesson at school could be a good indicator of her further learning. Best she learnt this lesson now Head Chefs change. Also would have been good to stress that if this is the chosen career you can say good bye to all weekends for the next 4 years including all friends 18's, 21st Birthdays, family BBQs, Weddings, Long Weekends and all the other good things that happen on a weekend as this is the reality of someone in that industry Let alone worry about 2 weeks out of holiday time or what to wear to school - Lucky my apprentice is really happy and is willing to put in the additional hours to show that he is worthy of his trade certificate.


So the point - a career in Food tech is for the foodies - was this subject picked for a career move or did it seem like it may be a way to add to the TER??? Have to be cynical as the subject was dropped - so obviously not vital to the overall result.

[kate_w]

"We are all asked in Oct-Nov if we have known leave expectations for the following year. "

Although I think Calliope's expectations are a bit high (nobody leaves their lives at the door when they turn up for work), I think PRF makes a good point here.

As a manager, I can only approve leave for people if it fits in with the operational needs of my team. This is standard, to my knowledge. Having said that, I can't (and definitely wouldn't want to) attempt to stop people from using their leave entitlements. But this has to be agreed upon for planned leave.

I guess the problem for teachers must be that there are always kids who are at a critical stage in their education. To my mind, the line managers of these teachers are therefore accountable to ensure that there is no interruption to the curriculum in place and a proper handover period is supplied.

Calliope, I'm not sure if you've mentioned this, but did you question the sudden change in the curriculum with your daughter's school before she ultimately decided to drop the subject?

[petainnt]

Totally off the subject ----How refreshing to see all those names?????

[deang]

Well said PRF, teachers are people and entitled to use leave.

That unforseen circumstances arise and they may be forced to take leave isn't considered by other people.

[PRF]

> I understand pregnany happens but long service is
> something that is known about and teachers who are
> planning to take it during the school year should not
> take year 12 classes. If you commit to teaching year
> 12 then you should be contracted to see the year out
> with your students.

Caliope,

While I understand your frustration and sympathise with your daughter's predicament, let me tell you that what you're asking for already happens.

We are all asked in Oct-Nov if we have known leave expectations for the following year. My principal asked me after the spring vacation so he could plan my roles and teaching loads for 2009.

Much the same would have happened at your daughter's school.

But, things happen. Extraordinary circumstances arise.

My fellow Year 6 teacher (a woman) this year was on leave from May to November despite intending to be on Year 6 throughout 2008. Problem was, in April, she intervened in an argument between two rival cliques of senior girls and a parent made an extraordinary claim against her. Two very good casual teachers took over the class for 6+ months.

After investigations and tribunals, the woman was completely cleared and the claims found to be of nuisance value and vexatious.

What cost to the other 30 children in the class? They expected to have Mrs R all year.

Teachers are entitled to use leave they have accumulated ... Sadly, it is sometimes with unfortunate and mostly unintended effects.

[Caliope]

Dusty I did not just allow her to drop the subject at whim, we discussed the pros and cons with her co ordinator and realised she was actually better off to not have the subject as an additional subject than to complete it and get a poor mark or fail. We decided to drop it then she would only have wasted 6 mths compared to an entire year of a subject she had completed a year early.Why should she be penalised point wise because she added a subject only to score a low grade when she would have a higher mark by not doing it! Had she been able to do the menu she had spent 6mths planning and perfecting then naturally she would have gained a higher mark but it is impossible to put that same time and effort in to getting the same outcome with a new menu she had for a week or two to work on.

[derat]

"Buffy, of course there is a university entrance exam however the topic of my posting was about the HSC testing. I assumed everyone was aware of a university entrance exam, so I fail to see how you think I was not representing the situation accurately."

Yeah Buffy - this is about the exam at the end of year 12, not the start of university. The timing of such an exam could not be more different.... Potentially - weeks... and the material... not even remotely the same.

And life is not full of tests is it...

Driving tests, employment tests, on the job training and tests, promotion tests...

[Thing]

'Tell me how cramming for an antiquated HSC exam prepares anyone for the real world, let alone further study?'

As I stated Uni's have exams at the end of each semester the same as end of year testing for year 12 which you claim is ridiculous.
Uni students cram for exams every semester, so cramming for HSC exams gives them an idea of what to expect at Uni & how to prepare for it.

[dusty_rusty_2000]

Thing, continual assessment does prepare students for university. It allows them to take ownership of their education by accepting the challenge of ensuring their school work gets the attention it deserves for two whole years, rather than what is happening with students participating in the HSC equalivalent. Tell me how cramming for an antiquated HSC exam prepares anyone for the real world, let alone further study?

Caliope, yes you are probably right. Your daughter wouldn't stand a chance in the ACT school system if she gets stressed over something as trivial as what to wear. No wonder she is having difficulty adapting to change with the new teacher. If she was my daughter, I would not have allowed her to simply drop the class because it was going to be a little bit tough. As a parent, you should have guided her through the positive aspects of change and the rewards of taking on a challenge, rather than shying away from it. The last minute adjustment of the goal posts is certainly a good introduction to the real world. One must wonder how she will cope in the workforce when asked to start an hour earlier than her usual routine. I guess it will be a major drama deciding what to wear, ironing it the night before and figuring out the bus timetable.

Buffy, of course there is a university entrance exam however the topic of my posting was about the HSC testing. I assumed everyone was aware of a university entrance exam, so I fail to see how you think I was not representing the situation accurately. Please feel free to start a new thread to discuss the pros and cons of this particular exam. This thread relates to the HSC or equivalent exam and one parent's view that we when the going gets tough, it's time to walk away and give up.

[Thing]

'It is replaced with an assessment based curriculum where there is none of this ridiculous testing at the end of year 12.'

This method doesn't prepare them for University as the majority of subjects have assignments & exams at the end of each semester...

[Caliope]

My daughter and her friends are actually glad there is a uniform as it removes the stress of wondering what to wear and the competition girls in particular have about having all the trendy new gear.

As to school attendance, it is a requirement in VCE that you have to attend a % of your classess, I think it is an 80% attendance but could be wrong so even if you are an A grade student, if you fail on attendance you fail the subject.

[buffyblue]

"In the ACT public system, the HSC was abolished back in the 70's . It is replaced with an assessment based curriculum where there is none of this ridiculous testing at the end of year 12."

But there is a test at the end of year 12 for university entrance, right? You're not representing the situation accurately.

No system is perfect and the ACT system certainly has some negative aspects to it. I fail to see a problem with expecting students to adhere to a dress code and having some expectation of attendance at classes. School is supposed to be preparing students for life in the real world.

[derat]

"It is replaced with an assessment based curriculum where there is none of this ridiculous testing at the end of year 12."

Makes perfect sense - because there is no such thing in their later life as a 'test' formal or informal is there.

"Attendance is not compulsory and you won't see any of those dorky school uniforms students from other states are forced to wear."

Because many won't later be asked to wear a 'uniform' or a 'suit' or such will they. Sure, get used to doing it how you like, wearing what you like. Of course an employer later would then be expected to just let them wear 'whatever'... and come in 'whenever'. Exactly when do you expect them to 'figure it out' - last year of school? "darn - I really should knuckle down and start learning"... way too late then.

I have seen and used the assessment based system over a term. There are merits in spreading the overall mark across a variety of assessments, but there are some good reasons for a final test as well. The last part of your final paragraph made perfect sense. The final test should not be the be all and end all - but there is a balance.

[dusty_rusty_2000]

This is a classic example of the Victorian (and other states) school system being totally outdated and the need to scrap the HSC / VCE or whatever label, in your particular state. In the ACT public system, the HSC was abolished back in the 70's . It is replaced with an assessment based curriculum where there is none of this ridiculous testing at the end of year 12.

Students are continually assessed on performance in their chosen classes. No subjects are compulsory however students are encouraged to complete a minimum of six units of each of the core subjects: Maths, English, Science or SOSE. Attendance is not compulsory and you won't see any of those dorky school uniforms students from other states are forced to wear. The students are treated as individuals and their choices are respected by the staff. For example, if a student decides they want to wag school, there is no such thing as detention. The students will figure it out for themselves eventually that if they don't attend classes, they will have to live with the ramifications.

If Caliope's daughter had studied through the ACT system, the work completed during the holidays would have made up a huge chunk of her final score. The change in teachers would have been irrelevant as her past work proved she was more than capable of attaining the required benchmark to successfully complete the course. The change of menu by the new teacher should have been embraced as a challenge faced by people in their everyday lives, rather than a massive stress moment. Unfortunately this is the outcome from a school system that doesn't offer continued assessment, instead students are forced to follow a strict regime of an out-dated education system that does nothing to prepare our young people to face the challenges and rewards of life. Just because a student can recite the correct answers to a test, it doesn't mean they have learnt anything. Far too much emphasis is placed on that final exam. A week or two of testing doesn't give a true indication of a students capabilities whereas two year's worth of work gives a far more realistic result of achievements.