Your Say: iPhone Warranty

[Good Enough Ralph]

I have nothing but praise for Apple who replaced the broken screen on my iPhone at no charge after I dropped it. It was an iPhone 3G (not 3GS, so not quite the latest model, but still under warranty). Just had to make an appointment and it was done on the spot, in about 15 minutes.

Contrast this with the rotten service I got from HTC with my previous phone, which was also under warranty - had to send it away to their service centre 3 times, and continued to get it back with the same fault still present each time! What’s more, on 2 of those occasions they LOST the phone. Sure, they found it again both times (thankful for small mercies!) but unless I had phoned both of those times to ask them why my repair was taking so long, they would not have even known they had received it - indeed, they wanted me to prove I’d posted it to them, when they had it there all along!

After no satisfaction, I complained directly to HTC’s head office in Taiwan, who gave me the runaround for almost a whole year (during which time the warranty ran out AND the battery failed soon afterwards). To cut a long story short, finally HTC came back with the wonderful news that they planned to do nothing at all.

Consider me an Apple convert, and needless to say I will NEVER buy another HTC product as long as I live.

[davidj]

When the iPhone's battery appeared to be terminally wounded, i made an appointment for a Genius (free), and, as above, the guy looked at it and tested it in 5 minutes, and replaced it almost instantly. He noted that it was OUT of warranty by several months, but said he wouldn't worry about that, and I walked out 5 minutes later with a newly activated, working iPhone. It may have been refurbished but I was HIGHLY impressed with how they dealt with me: They made an appointment at my convenience, were ready for me on time, were pleasant and knowledgeable, had the diagnostics ready without even leaving his chair, accepte responsibility, and replaced the unit without even a discussion, even though it was months out of warranty.

[Ten4]

This just gets worse.
Vodafone Australia has given the ACCC an undertaking that all handsets under contract with them will receive a retail warranty for the life of the contract at no extra cost. For some unknown reason, Vodafone have refused to include Apple phones in this undertaking. This points to something; I'm just not sure what.
Thankfully, the Apple phones are still covered by statutory warranty.

[agentofkaos]

Thanks for the info Ten4, very interesting. From Apple's point of view, you are dealing with their DOA policy, otherwise known as the 'Early Failure Policy'. They will replace a machine that fails within 10 days of purchase. That's 10 business days, so you effectively have 2 weeks.

This is of course Apple, and they aren't the law. The law has different requirements and I'm sure that plenty of exceptions get made to this policy, but it's good to know what their rules are before trying to get around them!

[Ten4]

The whole issue is a noodle-scratcher, in anyone's terms.
When the Trades Practices Act (TPA) was enacted in 1974, warranties were pieces of paper that we dutifully filed away while the product we bought performed as we thought it should for as long as we thought it should. Every now and then, we'd have to make a claim but it was the exception, not the rule.
It is a given that the TPA does not stipulate that replacement goods must be new. Rather, it provides that they must be replaced or the consumer supplied with equivalent goods. (It is my guess that the intention of the legislators at that time would be for the replacement of the goods to be with new goods or the repair to be carried out with new parts. The only way we could test that theory out is to take it to court.)
Where Apple's iPhone warranty practice falls in a screaming heap is the definition of "equivalent goods". No judge would uphold Apple's practice of replacing a brand new 15-day old iPhone with a second-hand, refurbished unit that is 12 months old. Indeed, Apple are not able to tell you the age of the refurbished unit.
To add a bit of weight to this, ACCC Chairman, Graeme Samuel, after investigating the practice of Vodafone Hutchison Australia's advising their customers that they were entitled only to having their 15-day old handset repaired and not replaced with a new unit, said that it was likely that VHA had breached the Trade Practices Act. VHA agreed to these court-enforceable undertakings. Apple does a hell of a lot less than this.

[agentofkaos]

'This is what they are required to do at law. '

Um, no. They are required to provide you with a product that works. If you buy one new and it breaks, they are required to fix or replace it.

WHERE DOES IT SAY THEY MUST REPLACE WITH NEW?

It must be fit for purpose and of merchantable quality.

I would be the last person to defend Apple (they sent me bankrupt for no good reason), but unfortunately you are wrong.

regards

Kaos

[Ten4]

I did get the iPhone replaced with a brand new unit but only by going through my phone carrier, as I'm under contract for 2 years. They couriered a loan iPhone to me, took away the brummy phone to take a look at it and then sent a brand new replacement. This is what they are required to do at law.
When the replacement new phone arrived, it had a dead pixel, so they replaced it again. Unfortunately, they replaced it with a refurbished unit, so they had to replace it again with another new unit. As this process took seven weeks and a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, they compensated me 6 months' free (approximately $700) for my time wasted. It was a grueling process that took many, many hours.
I'm wondering whether I'm going down the wrong path with the second-hand slant on things, given the NGE posts to date. Given that this is my 5th iPhone, perhaps I should be backing the Not-of-Merchantable-Quality horse.

[puggsy]

Us too...the wife dropped her and the screen broke...it was within warranty AND insured...put it into the local dealer and they staed a result in less than two weeks...but it was another 8 weeks later and no phone...It had not even been sent off...had to put the matter into the hands of the fair sales ombudsman...then they sat up and took notice...He gave them eight days to solve the problem and notification to us within two days...they had to comply...and did...so now she has a replacement phone but suspect a new case and secondhand guts...If it packs up again, she is going to a cheaper $50 unit and paid phone card...the staff of the shop were completely incompetent and the boss was away on long holidays...they could not have cared less...

[MissionMan]

It really depends on your perspective.

I had hassles with an iMate I picked up on contract through Telstra. When it came to warranty repair, Telstra couldn't even tell me who the repairer was or the warranty process and told me to just give the phone to them and they would find out but couldn't tell me how long it would take. After 3 days of hunting, I eventually found the repairer in QLD but they wanted a deposit in case it was an out of warranty repair like water damage and said it would take weeks to get it back.

On the converse, my wife had a hassle with her iPhone, set up an appointment, walked in, they tested it on the spot and she walked out 5 minutes later with a new/refurbished model. She had scratches on her screen and back of her old phone but the new one looked like new. She bought an extended warranty to 2 years in case she had further hassles and a year down the line she hasn't had further problems. You can complain about a refurb unit but there is always a likelihood you could get a new unit and also have it fail, but the quality of service was streets ahead of the competition. I have subsequently moved to one as well.

The one thing I've noticed over the last two years is the loyalty that Apple fans have to Apple. You can lay this down to Apple fans but fans don't mysteriously arrive, particularly those who only own the phones and I've yet to meet anyone who talks up any of the other brands. In after sales surveys, Apple consistently places at the top.

On the issue of trading in second hand goods, Apple has an area on their website which sells refurb laptops, it would be safe to assume they have the relevant licenses.

[agentofkaos]

Unfortunately you are revisiting well trodden ground here. I was an Apple dealer for 15 years, and I can tell you that Apple reserves the right to supply refurbished parts when performing service. It's listed in the T&C's of the warranty that came with your unit.

Here's where it becomes tricky. It is very common for all major manufacturers to supply refurbished parts in service, just like Apple does. When a product is new, there are none, so you get a new part. But as time goes on a bunch of faulty parts will be sent back to the manufacturer (remember Apple does not manufacture most of what they sell) and the people who made the product refurbish it and send it back for spares. This is not something that requires a secondhand dealers license as they aren't selling you second hand goods. they are replacing a faulty part. It's a bit sticky with an item like an iphone where it is considered 'whole unit exchange' as you pretty much are getting an entire replacement. So it probably doesn't come under the Sale of Goods Act.

it's a pain for dealers when the refurbisher doesn't do enough testing. We ran a service centre too and it was galling to have to reorder the same part 3 times, as the refurbished ones kept failing.

to summarise- it's a good argument but I don't think you are going to win that one.

regards

Kaos

[mpschaefer]

Having worked in Electronics Repair in the past for an Electronics Manufacturer, this is actually quite a common practice and Apple will not be the only company operating like this.

I'm not sure where you get the 18 months period from as the iPhone is updated on a 12 monthly cycle and you should have received a refurbished unit of the same model.

A refurbished unit will have been fully tested and most likely have had the outer casings replaced. That said, failures happen ( lookup "Failure Rates" on Wikipedia ) and you can stand up and demand a new unit but given that <1% of new units will fail within 14 days of purchase this does not guarantee you won't receive one of those units either.

[flexstr]

This is the Apple people get to know after the gloss of the marketing has worn off.

[NGE]

The way that Apple processes its iPhone warranty claims is groundbreaking, to say the least.

Here’s how it works. Let’s say that you take your 15 day old faulty iPhone back to them to get it fixed. They will run some diagnostics on it and, if they find that it is faulty, they will replace it for you, on the spot. So far, so good.

What you might not know is that the replacement is a refurbished unit that could be 18 months’ old and already have been around the block a number of times. We are told that they are like new units. Mine lasted three weeks.

As a retailer dealing in new goods, Apple should be fixing your new iPhone with new parts. Indeed, to legally engage in the trade of refurbished units - read ‘secondhand’ here - Apple must have a pawnbroker’s/secondhand dealer’s licence. I have requested that information of Apple’s Executive Relations officer who has point-blank refused to supply it.

It’s very disappointing service from a company that prides itself on providing a cutting-edge, premium product.

Contributed by member: Ten4